Our spiritual minds are the clouds into which Jesus ascended and decended

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“This is how Jesus was resurrected and ascended [or returned] in Peter, (in the OAC,) and in their lives”

The OAC member informed me as follows on this subject, “1 Corinthians 15 actually describes the Spiritual resurrection which has to occur in our lives. Peter himself said in verse 31: "I die day by day.” It is clear that this is not a natural/physical death and resurrection, but the death of the old, sinful, human nature of the naturally thinking man, [he means the OAC mind,] and the resurrection of the Spiritual/sinless/heavenly man, [or OAC ‘mind.’] This is how Jesus Christ was resurrected in Peter’s life. This is how Jesus Christ is still being resurrected in our lives. He died literally as a man on the cross, for our sins, which means that we do not have to be crucified for our sins. But “Jesus was quickened in the Spirit,” not quickened in the flesh! [As seen above, Jesus was made alive by the Spirit, not “in” the Spirit!] There is no mystery in the resurrection/ascension. Peter spoke of the [spiritual] resurrection, which will transpire when we die to our old, sinful, thinking man, [the natural human mind or soul,] and live spiritual. The dead of 1 Cor. 15 are not in their physical graves. [The dead are supposedly ‘natural’/carnal people whose mind’s were not enlightened by turning everything in the Bible into ‘spirit.’] People who are still ruled by their natural thoughts, 1 Pt. 3:18. God will be quickened [‘in’] the Spirit in our lives, if we accept Him as our Savior, 1 Cor. 15:22, “For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ will be made alive.” 1 Cor. 15:42, “So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body [or thinking, natural mind] is sown in corruption, [then a ‘spiritual mind is] raised in incorruptibly…”

¨ Answer: That Jesus is continually ‘resurrected’ in the apostles’ so-called spiritual minds and lives is nonsense. When and how did Jesus repeatedly die to be ‘resurrected?’ In the context of 1 Corinthians chapter 15, Paul taught neither on the Scriptural rebirth of the human spirit through personal faith in and acceptance of the Lord Jesus Christ, nor the renewal or transformation of our minds (or rather our thoughts and beliefs,) through studying the Scriptures after that, (Jn. 1:12-13; Gal. 4:6-7; Rom. 12:1-3.)

¨ Paul actually warned believers not to accept the lies of the Sadducee sect, which denied the fact that Jesus had risen bodily from the grave! He wrote, “Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised [bodily] from the dead, how do some of you say that there is no [physical] resurrection of the [departed?] If there is no [bodily] resurrection, then Christ was not raised. And if Christ was not raised, then our preaching is empty and our faith is in vain… and you are still [spiritually dead] in your sins [without His complete atonement in your place!]”

¨ Thus, this argument proves that the deceased are physically raised in glorious bodies at Jesus’ return, similar to Jesus’ body after He was raised from physical death. Hence, His grave was literally empty; no one ever found His body to this day. The heading of 1 Cor. 15:45-58 is, “A Glorious [resurrected] Body!” The text reads, “Someone asks, with what body will they come? [When Jesus returns on the literal clouds just as He ascended into heaven in the spirit world while they actually watched…] There are celestial bodies and terrestrial bodies… So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown [into the physical grave to decay] and [at Jesus return on the clouds,] it will be raised incorruptible [or glorified, never to decay again — not like the human spirits of the believing departed, who are already in the real heaven with Jesus, but in a glorified body similar to the resurrected body of Jesus.] I tell you a mystery: [when Jesus returns on the real clouds,] we will all be changed [into glorious bodies.] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised [in their incorruptible bodies] and [the living that remain] will be changed [into their glorified bodies.] So, when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then will be brought to pass the saying that is written: ‘[physical] death is swallowed up in victory…’”

“Our spiritual minds are the cloud into which Jesus ascended, and already descended or returned, not physical clouds!”

The OAC disciple who wrote to me explained, “Heb 12:1: ‘Since we are surrounded by a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance the race before us.’ We, who are in the cloud reveal Christ in the flesh, or preach God to others, and so, God, Who is Spirit, is justified in the Spirit. This is the cloud on which Jesus descends so God uses us, who represent His Son's body Spiritually, as 'n witnessing cloud, bringing Christ [or ‘apostles’] to others. We are the cloud which reveals God to the ‘natural’ [non-illuminated] man.”

Answer: So, “the cloud of witnesses” in Hebrews 12:1 is not, in the context of Hebrews chapter 11, a metaphor for the incredible testimonies of many great people of faith, who inspire Jesus’ disciples to follow Him obediently to the end like they did, (Heb. 12:2.) I don’t see Apostle Church testimonies of astounding obedience to the True God of the Bible in Hebrews 11, so how can they “be in the cloud of witnesses?” Additionally, the Book of Hebrews was written in the first century A.D. How can they make such a claim as Edward Irving only manufactured the Apostolic Movement in the 1800s?

What’s more, the whole world must be literally deaf and blind if Jesus returned without anyone else knowing about it. Or Jesus lied when He promised that “the [last] trumpet will sound [globally]” and He will appear as unexpectedly as a lighting flash before the entire world all at once. Then, “every eye will [personally] see Him and every tongue will confess that He is Lord,” in That Day when He returns on the literal clouds! (Mt. 24:27-31, Luke chapter 17, Mark chapter 13.)

It is also important that these ‘apostles’ tell the world, if Jesus was risen spiritually and ascended into their ‘spiritual minds,’ from where did He descend? Do they perhaps have ‘lower spiritual minds’ as well into which He could ‘descend’ from their ‘upper spiritual minds?’ According to them, the real, supernatural angels in Acts 1:9-11 also lied when they prophesied, "...While [the disciples literally] looked steadfastly toward heaven as Jesus went up, two men [materialized and] stood by them, [real, supernatural angels from heaven,] who said, ‘Why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, Who was taken up from you into heaven, will so return just as you saw Him ascend into heaven.”

Jesus Himself prophesied this exact way of His return in Matthew 24:27-31. Paul concurred in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-14, “...The Lord Jesus is revealed, [clearly and visibly seen,] from heaven [in the spirit world] with His mighty [supernatural] angels, in flaming fire, taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the [true] Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ, [as explained in His written Word.] These will be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord… when He comes, in That [One] Day…” How could it be possible that the “apostles” that turned into ‘angels and god,’ will punish all the unbelievers and disobedient believers in That Day?

¨ How can these people not understand that Jesus’ return will be literal? 2 Peter 3:10-14 describes That Day when Jesus comes to rescue His bride from this decaying world and to judge all those who are “not ready” to join her, as follows, “That [One] Day [when Jesus returns in flaming fire with His true angels,] He will come as [unexpectedly not secretly] as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, [when that happens those who have ‘apostolic spiritual minds’ will really be in big trouble,] and the [material] elements will melt with fervent heat. Both the earth and the works in it will be burned up… all things will be dissolved…” (Mt. 25:1-13.)

The Old, New, and other Apostolic “holy, [regenerating] water baptism” is the rite of initiation;

Wikipedia reported, “[This ritual is] …conducted with floating water and children can be baptized on the faith of their parents like in the Dutch and other Reformed churches, Lutheranism, Catholicism, etcetera. This baptism is the participation in the church of christ. [It merely makes them church members and the Scriptural baptism of disciples of the Lord Jesus Christ of the Bible is not in the picture, Mt. 28:18-20.] Baptism is thus considered as ‘rebirth with water and spirit,’ [just as in Calvinism and other churches.]”

Historically, all ‘church initiations’ stem from the dogmas of the Roman Catholic Church and her Protestant daughters. However, in the truth of Scripture, only sincere, personally believing disciples of Jesus may be baptized by immersion in water as per Jesus’ own example in Matthew 3:13-17, and as He commissioned His disciples to water baptize new disciples, (Mt. 28:19-20; Romans chapter 6.) The Scriptural rebirth cannot come through baptism, (either by immersion or the sprinkling of unbelieving babies or adults,) or through church membership of any kind. Being truly spiritually born again can only be attained through personal faith in, and acceptance of Jesus, (Jn. 1:12-14; 3:3-5.)

¨ The ‘water’ referred to in John 3:3-5 is the Truth of Jesus’ Word, the Scriptures of the Bible, (1 Pt. 1:23; Eph. 5:26-27.) The ‘Spirit’ in this passage is the Holy Spirit Himself. He convinces everyone on earth that that Jesus is real and His Word is true; convicting them of their lostness without Him or saved through His completed atonement in their place, and the ultimate judgment for rejecting Jesus, (Jn. 16:8-12.) Jesus said, “It is the Spirit Who gives life, the flesh [or church dogma and human ‘mediation’] profits you nothing. The words that I speak to you are Spirit and they are Life,” (Jn. 6:63.) Throughout Bible Scripture, God’s true, contextual Word and the Holy Spirit are inseparable; the One does not function in the human spirits, souls or minds, or lives of believers without the Other.

“These [saving church] sacraments can be given to the departed…”

The Apostle Movement, (OAC and NAC in particular,) believe there are three sacraments; holy communion, holy baptism, and holy sealing. Scripturally, there cannot be a ‘saving sacrament’ of any sort. Even the true water baptism of disciples is merely an outward declaration of what already happened in the ‘heart’ or human spirit and the mind or soul of Jesus’ disciple, (1 Ths. 5:23; Rom. Chapter 6.) Believers who personally accept Jesus as their Savior are immediately indwelt by His Holy Spirit, and He Himself “seals” them as the “guarantee” of their salvation, (Jn. 1:12-13; 3:3-5; Gal. 4:6-8.)

¨ Please, people, just read the Bible for yourselves in context and believe what is written there! Ephesians 1:13-14 teach, “In [Jesus Christ the God of the Bible] you trusted, after you heard the Word of Truth, the Gospel of your salvation; in Whom also, having believed, you were sealed [or indwelt] by the Holy Spirit of promise, [Who was given to all Jesus’ sincere disciples since Pentecost, Acts 2:38,] Who is the guarantee of our inheritance [in the real heaven in the spirit world,] until the redemption [or Jesus’ return on the real clouds in the sky,] of [we] the [blood atoned] possession, to the praise of His glory,” (Mt. 24:27-31.) There are no ‘saving sacraments’ or other church ministrations here. Just personal faith and Scriptural obedience to Jesus and His Word.

Old, New, and other ‘apostles’ also believe that these so-called saving sacraments can be given to the departed. This is in absolute contrast to God Who declared in the Bible, “It is appointed for all men once to die, and after that the [certain] judgment!” (Heb. 9:27.) There are no ‘second chances’ to get right with God, either after death or at Jesus’ return.

The New Apostolic Church actually has “divine services for the departed,” while Jesus written Word teaches in Ecclesiastes 9:5-6, “...The dead [deceased] knows nothing and they have no more reward… Nevermore will they have a share in anything done under the sun [or in this world.]”

Thus, Scripturally, not communion, sealing, or baptism after death exists, but judgment!

Jesus commanded in Matthew 28:18-20, “Go into the whole world, make disciples [by preaching my True Gospel to them,] water baptize [these believing disciples] in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and teach them everything I [Jesus and not men] have said.”

“The souls of the departed dwell in the ‘body of christ,’ (they are christ,) and “among their living members”

Apart from Hebrews 9:27, which solemnly warns, “[People] die only once, and after that the judgment,” Jesus declared in Luke 16:19-31, at the moment of death, the human spirits (1 Ths. 5:23) of the departed go either directly to heaven, (which is a real place in the spirit world,) or directly to eternal hell, (which is also a real place in the spirit world.)

Nonetheless, ‘apostles’ say they, ‘the body of christ,’ have either ‘hell’ or ‘heaven’ inside their ‘spiritual minds’ - and their ‘departed dwell in the body of christ,’ and among them. So, apart from the deceased that live in their ‘spiritual minds’ with them, they are also continually surrounded by the human spirits of dead people.

¨ That is why Old Apostolic Church ‘chief’ apostle Niehaus declared after his successor’s death in 1905, that he is “filled with the spirit of Krebs.” Wow! This is scary to say the least! Sharing their minds and lives with the departed should make them run! God strictly forbade us to contact the spirits of the deceased, talk to them, or call them up as that is idolatry and witchcraft, (Deut. 18:10-14.) In reality, the deceased “know nothing of what is going on here on earth,” (Eccl. 9:5-6.) So, although the ‘apostles’ do not believe in Satan and his demons as real entities, what they are actually conversing with and entertaining in their “spiritual minds,” are demons who pretend to be the departed. What’s more, Jesus actually commanded His disciples to be filled with the Holy Spirit and with the truth of His Word, which must “dwell richly” in them, (Eph. 5:18; Col. 3:16.) [From: F.W. WERNER, ‘Die Dwaling van die Apostelkerk.]

The departed “will attain salvation or ‘soul rest’ ‘in the body of christ,” which is the ‘enlightened mind of ’apostles’

The Roman Catholic concept of ‘purgatory’ or temporal hell, where their deceased are kept until they are “prayed through into heaven,” came directly from paganism. But at least, Catholics do not have their departed ‘living in their minds.’

The OAC disciple that informed me about the meaning of their doctrines, elaborated, “So, what actually happens after our physical death? Easy; the souls of those who dwelt in God, [he means in the OAC ‘body of christ’ that ‘have become Jesus,’] will attain salvation for their souls. The natural man [or the unenlightened mind] might think that [the departed’s] soul enters into other people. That is wrong. Your soul comes to rest in God, in the Spiritual body, [the body of christ or inside the minds of ‘apostles,’] in the kingdom of God… [which is also inside their minds,] receiving the end of your faith – the salvation of your soul!’”

Answer: Apostle dogma is just mega confusion, to say the least. How can their ‘spiritual’ minds be hell, heaven, the body of Christ, they themselves who ‘have become god and christ,’ the kingdom of god, and contain the spirits of dead people “without the dead living in them?” May the True God of the Scriptures give them the grace to simply listen to what they are saying! It is impossible that the dead can dwell in your mind, without living in you!

¨ Wikipedia states, “Buddhism teaches that there are… six realms of rebirth… Like all realms of rebirth, rebirth in naraka, [a form of ‘hell’ like Roman Catholic ‘purgatory,’] is not permanent… [No one can be ‘born again’ in hell; it is God’s place of eternal punishment from where no one ever comes back. Most blasphemously, false teachers like Joyce Meyer and company teach that ‘Jesus was born again in hell!’] Eventually even Devadatta, [who tried to kill the Buddha or christ] will become a Buddha himself… [One can supposedly only] escape the endless migration of rebirths through the attainment of nirvana, [the perfect, heavenly state where the soul or mind eventually ‘comes to rest;’ salvation, or the end of Buddhist faith.] In various forms, this is exactly what the Old, New, other Apostle churches, and Seventh Day Adventism teach!

Instead of apostle/Catholic/Buddhist/Seventh Day Adventist ‘soul rest,’ Bible Truth leaves no doubt concerning all these pagan dogmas about the departed, heaven, and hell. Eternal life in Christ is a personal decision. No church sacrament, the ministrations of church clergy, a baptism or other so-called ‘sacramental rite,’ or any amount of useless prayer for the departed can ever change the final destination, which the departed have chosen for themselves while they were still physically alive, (Jn. 1:12-14; Eccl. 9:5-6.) For the departed of all religions, (branches and offshoots of Christianity as well,) decision-time is over.

¨ Even sincere believers in Christ that obey His Scriptural Word, can only be saved by their personal decision to live in the Scriptural Truth of the Biblical Jesus during their physical lifetime here on earth. As said, second chances after death or at Jesus’ literal return on the clouds in the air, simply do not exist, (read Mt. 25:1-13!)

In the context of the whole Bible, the purgatory of Roman Catholicism is a deceptive myth.

Buddhist/Hindu reincarnation, ‘naraka’ and ‘nirvana,’ (or OAC and other apostles’ ‘hellish’ and ‘heavenly’ state of mind,) do not exist.

Judaism’s ‘hell’ is not ‘gehenna,’ which is a deserted place on earth. Their ‘sheol’ cuts closer to Scriptural truth as Jesus explained it, but this ‘dark abyss’ too, comes nowhere near the real Biblical hell in the spirit world.

The Jehovah’s Witness’ ‘annihilation’ of the ‘unsaved’ or non-Jehovah Witnesses is a reckless story.

The ‘soul sleep’ of the Seventh-day Adventist church is a deception.

¨ According to the contextual truth of the Bible, the love of the truth saves us while we are still alive, (2 Ths. 2:9-10.) The Lord Jesus Christ Alone is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and no one comes to the Father, or stays with the Father except through Him! (Jn. 14:6.) We must follow Him as His disciples to have the light of life and never walk in darkness, (Jn. 8:12.)

¨ Redemption, salvation, and blessing exist only in and through the complete atonement of Jesus Christ, the Son of the Living God of the Bible, and no one else! We must glorify Him with our entire lives by wholeheartedly obeying His New Testament commandments of the Moral Law.

Jesus, the sinless Lamb of God, took the place of all humanity “to pay the debt we could not pay.”

He took the crown of thorns for you and me.

He took the stripes, the nails, the mocking, the taunting, the humiliation, the indescribable pain for you and me.

Please, all “apostles,” repent from these dangerous deceptions and turn wholeheartedly to the Only Way of salvation, the One and Only True Jesus of Bible Scripture, because heaven and hell are eternal and real places in the spirit world!

God loves humankind simply too much to see us miss eternal life with Him in the real heaven! (Jn. 3:16.)

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CONTINUE TO THE ISRAELI TIMELINE RAPTURE DOGMA, AND THE NEW APOSTOLIC REFORMATION, WHICH EDWARD IRVING, FATHER OF THE OLD, NEW, AND APOSTOLIC CHURCHES, ALSO ESTABLISHED.

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